Atherton & District Amateur Photographic Society

I have noticed that their seems to be a trend for more & more i-phone and I-pad pictures to be put onto the Forum and facebook. It makes me wonder how long it will be before these pictures start to be entered into competitions, and what reaction will it get. For me I joined a camera club to progress my skills. I don't see how taking pictures with a phone will do this or maybe I've become one of these boring gets that moans about it not being photography. Apart from being able to hold the phone steady, I see no see in them. An apps for this and an apps for that.

GerryG wrote

It makes me wonder how long it will be before these pictures start to be entered into competitions, and what reaction will it get

They have [although only a few of us knew of their submission] and received critical acclaim, scoring on a par with camera generated images. Its just another way of taking an image and using PS and Snapseed Apps are just different ways of processing the image ... and shows that is not just about the equipment you use, but what you do with it.

And

For me I joined a camera club to progress my skills. I don't see how taking pictures with a phone will do this

If the taken image is the start of the process, does it matter what 'camera' it's taken on? Sometimes there is a simplicity in using something less complicated which helps you focus on the image, for example using a pinhole camera; or one lens; or one aperture; or manual mode in order to test and progress skills.

And

or maybe I've become one of these boring gets that moans about it not being photography

... my sentiments exactly!

W

We often hear people say that it's the photographer and not the camera, and of course that's true. It's just using the appropriate kit for the purpose, and if that's creative then anything goes from an iPhone to a pinhole camera to an old plate camera, even a scanner can be used.

However, if we want architectural shots for printing poster size on Euston Station then the type of camera may well become important and it might be so expensive that we hire it for the job. If we're a teenager posting party pics on Facebook then we probably use our phone.

I'm pleased really that photography can mean so many different things, appealing to individuals depending on their wishes and requirements.

GERRYG wrote: I have noticed that their seems to be a trend for more & more i-phone and I-pad pictures to be put onto the Forum and facebook.

I'm not sure about it being a growing trend, but Mark Dyson has just posted some excellent Iphone images onto our Forum.
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3138

GERRYG wrote: It makes me wonder how long it will be before these pictures start to be entered into competitions, and what reaction will it get.

They already have been. There were some in the last few monthly competitions.
The fact that you didn't spot them as being cameraphone images, and neither did the judge, says a lot, does it not?

GERRYG wrote: For me I joined a camera club to progress my skills.

Does another member taking photos on his/her photo preclude that?

GERRYG wrote: I've become one of these boring gets that moans about it not being photography.

I've posted these links on the forum before, but they're worth another look...

Professional wedding photographer Jerry Ghionis shoots the wedding of Josh and Amber on his Iphone:
http://jerryghionisblog.com/2012/05/the ... phone.html

Iphone photos on the front page of the New York Times:
http://connect.dpreview.com/post/739870 ... front-page


Personally, I wish that I could take a decent photo with my phone. I'm in awe of the photographs that Mark showed me on his phone last week.

Oops!

GerryG wrote -
or maybe I've become one of these boring gets that moans about it not being photography
And I replied
... my sentiments exactly!

Of course I did mean that I was one of those boring gets that moans about it not being photography too!

W

There is no difference if you shoot with a dslr a film camera iPad or iPhone all they do is record an image. What you do with it after is up to the photographer. Apps are just software that let's you alter the image just like Photoshop or Lightroom with the added use of filters like the ones from Nik. All my images for next years monthly comps will be with the iPhone. You can judge for yourself. Most dslr users invest a lot of money in the latest best camera with mega pixel sensors and only view the on a computer screen or display them in comps at 1400x1050 at 72dpi. You get bigger native file sizes from the iPhone. People tend to forget photography is a personal thing and you should shoot for yourself.

First off I have to say that I'm very much in favour of more people entering photographs taken on their phones and ipods (and ipads if you're happy to look like a div whilst taking them ).

I have, in fact, suggested that we have a special one-off competition to accommodate them. The consensus was that we already have had a few images entered in normal competitions, so a special one seems unnecessary. I may well start a forum competition for mobile phone photography soon though (when I pull my finger out! ).

If anyone has any doubt to the validity of mobile phone images then take a look at the links below:

https://www.ippawards.com/?project=2013-winners

http://mobilephotoawards.com/

I am certainly looking forward to seeing Mark's iphone entries going forward - a bold step maybe, but it's a camera that he'll always have with him, so he shouldn't miss any opportunities!

Being realistic though, they will never completely replace an interchangeable lens camera. If you do sports or nature, you're certainly going to need long lenses, fast focus tracking and better ISO performance. This is the main reason I feel we should hold a separate competition for mobile photos, so that they are not judged unfairly next to something taken on a D800 with no noise etc...

Here are a couple that I've taken:

Taken with either a Samsung Galaxy or a Sony mobile (all tweaked on my S3 with Apps):

http://500px.com/photo/54872686
http://500px.com/photo/55057178
http://500px.com/photo/63586163
http://500px.com/photo/9831195

Taken with an ipod touch (Hipstamatic App, you chose a lens and film, which are basiclly filters before you shoot):

http://500px.com/photo/63281507
http://500px.com/photo/63489229
http://500px.com/photo/63415971

One last thing, lest we forget that mobile phone photography is what more than likely turned most of our newer members on to (digital) photography in the first place!

Andy.

I think you're right Andy, and a special competition would have been interesting, but the forum version will test the waters to see what response we get.

I'll have a look at your shots later, unfortunately I seem to have overslept this morning, so things to catch up on first!

BydoR9 wrote: Taken with an ipod touch (Hipstamatic App, you chose a lens and film, which are basiclly filters before you shoot):

http://500px.com/photo/63489229

They're all good shots, Andy, but I really like 'Metropolis'.

I need to practice with my phone, I think...

BydoR9 wrote: Being realistic though, they will never completely replace an interchangeable lens camera.....

Today's news... 'Apple is looking at interchangeable lenses for mobile devices that will attach via a bayonet mount, just like on a DSLR or mirrorless system camera.'

Link - http://connect.dpreview.com/post/710042 ... =title_0_0

I really like the three monochrome shots, those are very different and distinctive. However, underlying the effects is an excellent sense of composition, so there is photographic skill in there. The colour shots I'm not so keen on, they just look unsharp without the same sense of purpose.

Let's have that online competition Andy!

Well, I've bitten my tongue long enough, even well before Gerry posted this.

I consider myself a photographer, not a snapper, or someone who takes pictures, I'm a photographer.

I haven't seen a photograph yet, taken with a smartphone that is sharp enough, or has any kind of lifelike colours to it, full stop. Mobile phones are full of apps that make your photos look different, by messing with the colours etc, in the same way that someone would use onOne Perfect Pictures (or whatever it is called now) to click a preset, don't like it, next preset etc etc. I have a similar feeling on the first incarnation of digital HDR. The reason is, the photo is rubbish in the first place, so you have to make it look different, because you can't make it look better.

There is an old proverb crap in, crap out.

Now, let's have a look. The instagram photo on the front page of the new york times has been debunked by other pro photographers who were at the same shoot. The reason is that it was taken in perfect light, as there was a continuous lighting setup which they all used. Now, why does it have that horrible look about it? That's because the photo couldn't look as good as what was taken by anyone else, so it has to be made to look different. The extra bits are that it was a campaign ran by the fruit based marketing machine. Lastly, the photo isn't there because it's a good one, the bloke already works for the New York Times and that's the photo he put on the front, not one that was chosen from hundreds.

The wedding shots are all in good light, so why are none of them very sharp, and why are they all that pale black and white that is pretending to look like film and failing miserably? Can anyone tell me they'd be happy if that was their wedding collection? I'd be distraught.

Ok, the difficult bit, and we've all had discussions lately about not wanting to upset people by giving critique etc etc. So, here goes, I want to start by saying that if you take a photo of ANYTHING using ANY CAMERA and you are happy with it, then that is all that matters in the world, and nothing ANYONE says should change that.

BydoR9, as you put your head up above the wall:

Millenium bridge at dawn - It's a photo, there's no sharpness, the colour is unappealing, I'm not bothered about the sky being bland, as that was obviously what it looked like when you took it. - For me, keep or delete - DELETE

Morning light - It's a photo, there's no sharpness, the colour is unappealing, I'm struggling to make out how many people there are in the photo, but struggle on and you'll find four - For me, keep or delete - DELETE

Good Boy - Yes, nice photo of your family pet, the colour spoils it for me - For me, keep or delete - KEEP

Red Abstract Lamp - For me, keep or delete - DELETE

No 39 - Too much darkness in the bottom of the photo, the house isn't sharp enough - For me, keep or delete - DELETE

Metropolis - Good perspective, good angles, however, none of them are sharp and I'm struggling to see the three flag poles in the middle of the photo - For me, keep or delete - KEEP

What a load of bollards - No sharpness, no real interest for me to be honest. For me, keep or delete - DELETE

I won't go through the same picking of Mark's photos here, as he didn't put himself forward.

The worst for me, by the way, is the iPad, why on earth you would take a photo on that, I don't know. (Then again, I have strong opinions on all aspects of the fruit based marketeer's products).

Sony has produced a "SmartLens" which clips onto your phone, and does all the camera work, bypassing the internal sensor etc and I like the idea of that, except for the fact that it's really a compact camera without the operating controls and display. That said, you can take a better photo and instantly upload etc etc, which is one step up from just the camera and starts at about £150.

Using a mobile phone to get really good photos, as good as a "Photographer" would take with "Photographic equipment", are we really having this discussion? I purposely have a chinese made mobile phone, where the camera is rubbish, just so I am not tempted. I had a sony phone last and the camera was good, about the same as a budget compact and even though Nokia has a phone with a 40Mpixel sensor, it still has a mobile phone lens. Start with nearest the subject and work your way back.

I have the discussion all the time, best lens on the worst camera will outperform an average lens on the best camera. The reason for that starts with sharpness and ends with sharpness. A plastic lens on a mobile phone..........

But if you want impressive, powerful portraits Phil you could look at Julia Margaret Cameron. Technically woeful by some standards, but full of feeling for the subject and nonetheless very strong portraits.

There's more to photography than technical perfection, which is why people experiment with pinholes (I have my Shield Mount lens for the Q), obsolete darkroom techniques and even iPhones. If that leads an iPhone user to explore photography later with a DSLR, fair enough. If it doesn't then at least they have enjoyed the process and nothing's lost.

GERRYG wrote: I joined a camera club to progress my skills. I don't see how taking pictures with a phone will do this or maybe I've become one of these boring gets that moans about it not being photography. Apart from being able to hold the phone steady, I see no see in them. An apps for this and an apps for that.

PhilipHowe wrote: Using a mobile phone to get really good photos, as good as a "Photographer" would take with "Photographic equipment", are we really having this discussion?

I thought the discussion was about Gerry feeling intimidated or disillusioned by the use of cameraphone images in ADAPS.

I certainly wouldn't argue that a cameraphone can equal the quality from a DSLR and I agree that many cameraphone users rely on apps to 'improve' the images.

Good post Philip and top marks for not biting your tongue.

I started to read this topic, then almost fell asleep. I recently bought a Tesco Hudle tablet, which cost me £60 because we had some vouchers in hand and are or were at the time worth double. I looked at loads of other tablets before chosing the Hudle. One thing that stood out in the reviews was the camera, it was supposed to be rubbish, but, I didn't buy it for that. When I did test the camera, the reports were true, the camera is/was rubbish. However, in a quiet moment when I prised the Hudle away from my wife & "Betty Neels", I looked through the software for photography that came with it & found it is possible to improve the quality of the picture with what comes with the tablet. I suppose other tablets/smart phones (correct terminology) have similar spec's, we just need to look for them. Would I use it for taking pictures, no. Last week I decided to join Facebook, I've fought shy of it since it came out, but finally decided it was better to be in than out. I posted a couple of pictures on there from our recent trip to the new Liverpool Museum, compared to the normal run of the mill picture on Facebook, mine stand out as being superior quality, however, I did use a dedicated camera to take them, not a Nikon or a Canon, not a DSLR.
For the phone/tablet knockers, just look back at the great photgraphs from the early days, it isn't the quality that stands out, it's the image.
Eric