picking a video camera

[Theo Dibbits]

It's that time of year again and I have decided to get my missus a small video camera for Christmas.
Unfortunately I know very little about them.

It should be small enough to go in her handbag (mind you, you can probably get a full socket set in there)
Easy to use
HD
Have decent low light performance (I mean able to operate in in-door schools)
Preferably take stills
???

Any one using one that they can recommend and any other specifications I should be looking for?
What about software? Do they come with it?

I would be grateful for any help.

Theo

[Stu B]

Theo.

I cant speak personally, but the Flip Ultra HD (Third Generation) is worth checking out, Comes complete with software. Records 2 hours of video. It also has a tripod socket, which some of the others dont. My daughter teaches with these at her school. Loads of video of these on you tube. review at http://www.hightechdad.com

Or the Kodak Zi8

[oakeycoke]

Theo,

An ideal opportunity to get a 600D dslr, meets all the requirements and you could use it as a back up camera lol, oh and you could use all those nice lenses you have.. Utube also has many reviews of camcorders eg,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rS7DNlhzUqg&feature=fvsr

Phil.

[John]

Phil, does the camera you mention have a limit on the length of video it will shoot? CMOS and CCD sensors can become quite hot when shooting video and cameras may well shut down after 10 minutes or so.

This could be relevant if, for example, shooting a school nativity play, where we would want quite a long single take.

[PhilipHowe]

Stu, my wife also uses them at school, they have around 10 or 15 that they use, however, I don't like them at all. the sound is very poor, only mono and no external plugin. I don't think they are very good in low light either, however, in good light, the picture is very stable. No zoom of course.

I half agree with Phil, however, think that may be a little big.

I have an Olympus EPen E-PL1 micro four thirds camera that cost me £200 second hand. Apart from being a decent camera, it records 720p (next model up does 1080p) and is very fast. The videos are superb and the body has IS.

Mine has a limit of 7min per video, but that's due to a 2Gb size limit of the camera, again, newer models get round this.

Theo, if you would consider a micro four thirds (although I would only go for a panasonic or olympus), then you are more than welcome to loan mine as I won't be using it for a while.

Let me know and I'll drop it off when i pass next.

[oakeycoke]

John,

Have used my 550D at weddings for small amounts of video, think they will do about 30 mins worth at one go, but never tried for anywhere near that time, so dont know how hot it gets, does need a high speed sdhc card.

Just in passing i'm using a 7dayshop.com £29.99 in car video HD recorder at work this week, not quite suitable for what Theo wants, but in daylight the quality is pretty good. Records for 3 mins with a second or 2 break and restarts (creates avi files around 375Mb size)
http://www.7dayshop.com/catalog/product ... _id=111548

Phil.

[Theo Dibbits]

Thanks every one for your comments so far.
This whole thing is driving me up the wall. I have been around 7 different shops including PC world and the staff have absolutely no idea.

Forget the technical features of the different cameras which I can at least look up on the internet.
My simple question is how do you transfer the file(s) from the camera to the PC, edit them and burn them to a DVD for viewing on a TV. Is there any software included with the camera to do this or do I need a separate programme. If so which one.
The answers have been from "I don't know" with the best on "I guess but I don't use a camcorder"
From some of the comments on the web it appears that for the Sony you need a blueray device, for the Panasonic you need at least a twin core PC (which would not be a problem)

I may just get one from Amazon, try it and send it back if needs be.

Theo

[John]

There are plenty of programs for Video editing Theo, have a look at Amazon. There's probably something in Windows as well. Pictures2Exe can now cover video and there's Nero and Roxio to look at also.

It's a whole new area and a bit how beginning photographers feel when they get their first digital camera.

[PhilipHowe]

Theo,

Windows Movie Maker is free and included in Windows 7 and Vista. If it's not installed, then it is a free download, once you pass the authentication tests. I'm not saying it is the best available. It is free and does the job. I have exported directly from there to youtube. I will try and export to DVD tonight for you. I don't have a DVD player so will only be able to test that it outputs the vob structure.

http://www.youtube.com/user/HoweFamilyVideos

My camera has CD card and outputs to high def AVI. The fastest way is with a high speed card reader, obviously, the cable connection is good, just not as fast.

I got a 32Gb class 10 memory card from MyMemory.co.uk for it for £30.

[Stu B]

Agree with Phil on the windows movie maker. Another to consider ii your buying,, Adobe premiere elements.

[oakeycoke]

Theo,

Some camcorders will come with software for making videos usually the light version of a program like adobe premier elements which is normally older and has cut down facilities. As John says there are loads on amazon and there will be free ones. I used Serif Movieplus on Windows, but now with a Mac you dont need any extra programs as they come with the operating system.

You need to be aware of the different file formats for videos, such as .avi, mov etc and that for example because its an avi file it doesn't mean that windows will open it correctly. Within an .avi file are different codecs for the video and sound, i.e. how its compressed. An analogy would be like the Canon raw files, .cr2 which though they have the same file extension for different Canon cameras the software needs updating to read them, especially with later models. There are free codec programs around which have all the common codecs built in.

In a movie program you upload the video often by usb, firewire or even drag and drop into the program then use the editing/storey line mode to adjust it and add effects. The dearer programs allow you to insert video over video and sound etc. When you have it how you want it you can output the video. Sometimes the software for writing to a dvd is included and in other programs you use different software to write to dvd. Basically you export the video to what you want, be that HD dvd, cd video, iphone, utube etc.

When exporting your video the software renders it, i.e. it compresses it, this can take a considerable time and the computer memory and processor will be working overtime. You can get hardware rendering programs, but they usual cost more than your camcorder but are lots quicker.

DVD videos are split into 2 folders usually, video and sound, but the sound is usually incorporated within the video folder files, where the main ones are .vob files. When you insert a dvd into a stand alone dvd player or your computer, software recognises the .vob files, knows you have a dvd video and loads it into the default program for playing, which would normally be windows media player, or power dvd etc on windows computers.

All sounds rather complicated, but its far easier and more intuitive than PHOTOSHOP, though dvd-R and dvd+R discs etc can play up in some stand alone machines.

By the way, i've never paid full price for any Serif software, you can download free older or light versions, then when you upgrade haggle and they will reduce the price. I updated webplus to do a website recently on a windows machine. I got it for half price with a newer version (but not the latest) of there photoplus software thrown in and the full printed manual included.

Phil.

[Theo Dibbits]

Thanks every one, this is getting a little clearer.

I am going to split the job in two. I will download the trial version of some of these programmes and see which one is the easiest to use and provides automatic creation of video dvd s. After all it is for my missus and she probably just wants to cut and paste to put on a hd tv.

I am also making a short list of potential cameras using cutomer ratings at amazon and the like. (plus a price bracket )
I'll take that to John Lewis in the Trafford centre to have a look at the sizes.
Once I have narrowed it down to one or two I can check the software to see if they support this particular model.

The only question remaining is do the stand alone dvd players used with your tv accept multiple file formats or are they all standardised?

Thanks again for your help

Theo

[John]

Theo, when the DVD is travelling around the family the older members may have older DVD players. These may or may not cause a problem, but you're better creating a standard DVD. The programs will do this. However, with the best preparation possible your DVD may not play on 100% of the players you try it in.

More recent DVD players will play an amazing array of formats and will usually say so on the front panel.

[Stu B]

Personally Theo. Depending on the length of your "Epics" I wouldnt even go to the trouble and cost of producing a DVD. "Bit old fashioned" You Tube now accept uploads in hd video in ten different qualities, all the way up to 1080p.. No software required. Easily then viewed on desktop computers, laptops on the move, ipads, mobile phones and internet tv. Or even facebook is another medium..